So, what is Yaoi (and, I should have add it, Yuri too)?
It's a kind of stylized porn manga written by women (most of the time) for women. (... most of the time? I guess some male must like it too). Yaoi/Yuri has a really stereotypical vision of homosexuality, which can be a little bit insultant, sometimes. And of course, in a Yaoi story, you have those awful characters, who are supposed to be males, but who looks like ugly girls. Most of the time, their personnalities are awful as well, and their relationship... Well, you have this Uke/Seme bullshit.
Those are my reasons for strongly disliking Yaoi.
Stereotypes + Boring characters = Something I can't like
And what is Bara?
The same thing than Yaoi. BUT WITH MANLY DUDES!
( yes, this is stupid as hell, since Bara is just as stereotypical than Yaoi, this is just badly written and badly drawn porn, but at least... The characters looks like male, and not really ugly chicks )
But I have to agree that most of the yaois thta I saw the guys look way too much like women >.< //
I'd like to find authors who keeps a character's personality in one piece.
Not saying Bara is perfect, man, it has his own stereotypes and stupid stuff, but at least it's not that.
So Bara doesn't have as much rape? Just another reason why it's the superior genre.
Do you know much about yuri? Does it have a lot of rape and pedophilia in it like yaoi? If it doesn't, I don't see how yaoi twats can have the nerve to get offended if someone likes yuri but hates yaoi.
Boku no ano ko
sekaiichi hatsukoi (only the manga, the anime dosent show much)
three wolves mountain
you make my head spin
"actually some couples do fit the uke/seme 'stereotype'"
O RLY? You're sure you're not talking about a work of fiction, because I've yet to see any real life STRAIGHT couple act like that unless they're on the News about the woman/girl that was murdered by her husband/boyfriend.
Anyway, BOTH Yaoi and Bara are unrealistic. I only like Bara because the men actually looks like men in it. It's porn. Porn is, most of the time, unrealistic, bro ^^".
Hardcore is always true.
I can't like or love women with dicks...
I'd like to see what kind of character you had in mind, because I honnestly never seen any yaoi character that looked like a male. To be honnest, only a very few of anime character looks like male to me...
And about facial hair... I understand your point of view. When I was younger, I really wasn't liking it, but now... I really love some hair on my dudes
Running on Empty (more of a shounen ai though),
May I Tell You,
Kiss in Darkness,
Kimi to Date,
Bukiyo na Silent,
etc., this was all I could think of at the moment. Yeah, I read a lot of yaoi -////-. In the end it all kinda depends on perspective, doesn't it? I mean, bulging muscles and facial hair is obviously masculine, like huge eyes, soft features, and lucious hair is obviously femminine, but everything else is kind of a grey area, huh? It depends on what you consider to be manly or girly. Again sorry for the long-ish post, and Happy Holidays!
Aaaand I'm a boy.
I've checked out a few of the stuff you gave to me, and while I'm not going to call myself a fan, some of them actually seemed way more interesting than all the other yaoi stuff I read before ^^.
( and do no apologize, long messages are awesome! )
I've read a great variation of manga, anything from shounen, shoujo,seinen, and adult oriented stories, and while i personally dont really like a really realistic artstyle, i've read some of those too. But a manga is still a work of fiction, and thus will never be a full depiction of reality
Also while there is tons and tons of crappy, stereotypical yaoi out there, its worth noting that not all yaoi follows stereotypes like dominant seme - wimpy/girly Uke. I'm not a fan of those stereotypes either, but there is plenty of yaoi if you look past the stereotypical crap that breaks with these cliches.
Also the whole 'insulting to real homosexuals' thing... geez get a sense of humour. You can't be insulted by every little thing or you'll just spend the rest of your life being insulted over small stuff. also not all males are insulted by it either. I've seen guys throwing 'no real gay likes yaoi, its only crazy fangirls' crap around. I'm a bisexual guy leaning more toward guys, and I dont like wimps one bit, yet I really enjoy a good yaoi/shounen-ai story.
And finally, giving someone bullshit for what there preference in guys or whatever is utter bollocks anyways. No reason to hate, lets all just get along. no one is forcing anyone to read it.
I would really like to read one of those "non stereotypical yaoi", but I just can't find any, would you have any title for me?
Of course I'm not forced to read it, but I like to argue and discuss with people who have different opinion, and making this kind of stamp bring a lot of people ready to discuss here, so I'm more than happy ^^.
then there's also just manga who still have seme/uke stuff, but play with the cliches and how its done. cant really remember any titles of those, maybe Honto Yajuu a little.
But yeah, its mainly personal preference, i prefer slimmer built guys around my age, and kinda dislike a buffed up built... so yeah.
I've never heard the term "bara" and I'm curious as to where it originated from if you'd enlighten me. As far as I know it's a host club in which the men dress as women. And it means rose.
Of course, there is girly men in real life, I just think they are really not attactive... To each their own, I guess ^^".
Sex scenes aren't realistic, really. They are doing it every five seconds (well, not really, but you get what I mean XD), without any lubricant or condom (not every couple use it, but it is advisable), the one "taking in" is always the same (that Uke/Seme logic doesn't work in most couple). And please, those relationship! Even when you take away sex (because anyway, it's never really realistic), the characters are so blank, it just makes me want to watch a show about cockroaches instead. No one can be THAT superficial in a relationship. It's just about freakin physic. Sure, some people are like that in real life, but reading a comic about it isn't interesting.
The only two yaoi I've read that actually kept my attention were Junjou Romantica and Sekaiichi Hatsukoi. Mostly because the characters actually have careers that are discussed and their entire lives aren't necessarily their relationships. Though there is one story in JR I can't stand x/
But I completely understand where you're coming from. Most yaoi don't have stories and are mind numbingly boring. And when it comes to who's the top and who's the bottom it doesn't always change or stay the same. I have a few friends who are gay men, two of which are too open about their sex lives. From what they tell me it really depends on the relationship. Sometimes there is a designated "female" or "uke" and sometimes there isn't.
I do have to admit I can't resist the stories when the one man looks a lot like a woman so the "manlier" one falls for "her" and later had to deal with the fact he's attracted to a man. Though that's more for the comedic value than anything else. Then again, some are more dramatic than funny. Either way, typically when I start reading/watching a yaoi I stop before it gets too far into the non-existant plot because it's boring.
Basically what I'm trying to say is I'm not defending yaoi I'm just not completely understanding the difference.